Trump Called Pence A “Wimp” In Final January 6 Call, Notes Reveal
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Newly released notes written by former Vice President Mike Pence reveal the tense exchange he had with U.S. President Donald Trump on the morning of January 6, 2021.
The notes, published in ABC News correspondent Jonathan Karl’s new book Retribution, show Trump’s final attempt to overturn Joe Biden’s victory in the 2020 presidential election.
Highlights
- Mike Pence's notes reveal Trump pressured him to block Biden's victory, saying Pence would 'go down as a wimp' if he certified results.
- Pence refused Trump's demand, emphasizing that courage lies in upholding the Constitution, not breaking the law.
- The tense Trump-Pence call occurred shortly before the Capitol riot, where rioters chanted ‘Hang Mike Pence.’
- Despite the Jan. 6 fallout, Trump denies losing 2020, attacks investigators, and his allies hint at a possible 2028 presidential run.
Before addressing his supporters at the Save America rally, which led to the attack on the U.S. Capitol, Trump made one phone call.
A tense call between Trump and Pence occurred before the January 6 Capitol riots
Image credits: Drew Angerer/Getty Images
Trump called Pence to ask him to block Biden’s victory, saying that the VP would “go down as a wimp” if he certified the election results.
Pence refused Trump’s demand.
“You’ll go down as a wimp,” Trump told Pence, according to Pence’s handwritten notes. “If you do that, I made a big mistake five years ago.”
According to Retribution, Trump also told Pence, “You listen to the wrong people.” Pence drew a rough sketch of an angry face beside the comment.
Image credits: X/Jonathan Karl
“You’re not protecting our country, you’re supposed to support + defend our country,” Trump told Pence, according to the notes.
“I said we both [took] an oath to support + defend the Constitution. It doesn’t take courage to break the law. It takes courage to uphold the law,” Pence reportedly responded.
Special Counsel Jack Smith had reportedly planned to use Pence’s notes as evidence that Trump knowingly tried to obstruct the transfer of power, The Daily Beast reported.
The notes were written in Pence’s day planner and remained private until Karl obtained them for Retribution.
Trump reportedly asked Pence to block Biden’s victory, saying he would ‘go down as a wimp’
Image credits: Drew Angerer/Getty Images
Smith’s investigation into Trump’s role in the attack ended after the Supreme Court ruled in 2024 that presidents are immune from prosecution for official acts, and Trump returned to the White House following his 2024 election victory.
Witnesses previously told the House January 6 Committee that the conversation between Trump and Pence grew heated. Trump aide Nicholas Luna testified and corroborated Pence’s account.
“I remember hearing the word ‘wimp,’” Luna said in a taped deposition. “Either he called him a wimp, I don’t remember if he said, ‘You are a wimp, you’ll be a wimp.’ Wimp is the word I remember.”
After Pence refused to use his ceremonial role as president of the Senate to delay the certification process, Trump tweeted that his vice president “didn’t have the courage” to act.
Image credits: Mark Wilson/Getty Images
As Pence oversaw the session, rioters broke into the Capitol, forcing lawmakers to evacuate. Some in the mob chanted, “Hang Mike Pence,” following Trump’s tweet made four minutes before Pence arrived at the secure Capitol location with his security team.
The mob of Trump supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol to block Congress from certifying Biden’s Electoral College victory.
The attack followed Trump’s claim of a stolen election and a rally urging supporters to “fight like hell.” It resulted in hundreds of criminal charges and convictions.
Rioters breached security, vandalized offices, assaulted police, and caused multiple deaths and injuries.
Riots broke out in the Capitol building shortly after the conversation, with rioters shouting ‘Hang Mike Pence’
Image credits: Samuel Corum/Getty Images
Trump continues to deny that he lost the 2020 election. He has repeatedly attacked officials involved in the January 6 investigation, calling them “crooked lowlifes.”
The Trump administration has also pardoned 600 rioters who had been convicted of obstructing the law and using a deadly weapon.
His allies, including former adviser Steve Bannon, have suggested that Trump could seek a third term, despite constitutional limits for presidents to only serve for two terms.
“Trump is gonna be president ’28 so people just ought to get accommodated with that,” Bannon said last week.